Ray and Derek Round riding the Works BSA outfit 92 HOH.

OK...Today I continue my story into the Hero's of the  last days of

British Trials Machines  History.

 And a Story which I helped to create and- end too.

Well at the end of 2010 I was asked by the daughter of one of my trials friends that I grew up in the sport with, to try and locate their old Works BSA trial's outfit, 92 HOH...

The BSA Works outfit  had gone missing since Ray Round  had sold the plot in 1976.

 Ray had sadly passed away, and her dad Derek had vowed to find their old BSA Works Outfit to restore while he still could.

What a gesture not for his financial gain but just to put a closure to his and his brothers mostly unrecognised fame has BSA works riders.

And have something to remember their past with.

Well the only link I had with the trials community was Trials Central, so set about trying to find the outfit by starting a forum story.

 This led to an unsuspecting link?

 Well if you read the pages on TC, "92 HOH is Lost",

 You will see what I mean.

My ex wife's brother mailed me, to say that Tim Fairbrother was the last person he knew that owned the plot. I mailed Tim, and later we had a chat about the bike, and other things in today's scene.

 Photo taken by Mary Wylde Courtesy of Deryk and "Offroad Archive".

This photo of (John the passenger Will Hawks says who later bought the outfit...)  after upending the plot on the ledge that the late Jack Mathew's is walking up, this is the way the section ran, plotted by Deryk Wylde, the AA man  giving a hand is Will Hawke's friend with the ex brother in-law...  and I might add both still friends with me?

( Offroad Archives), thank's Deryk .

 Volume Two of Offroad Revu-e  is now out .

The Photo below is how they got into the situation, nasty.

Tim's first e-mail to me.

Tim Fairbrother.

When I joined South Midland Motor club in 1960 Ray & Derek were already members and campaigning a Bill Howard supported Gold Star, the engine of which I have in a road bike.

Naturally I followed their progress with interest & when in 1968 I took up Sidecar trialing we built a 440 BSA outfit to the same spec as theirs.

When Ray and Derek moved on to using a B50 engined bike, I believe the factory disposed of 92 HOH.

Ray then started using a Kawasaki outfit, and I loaned the B50 for a few trials prior to building a B50 of my own.

The only information I have about 92 HOH was a conversation I had with Peter Roydhouse about ten years ago who knew of its whereabouts in a very sad state in Yorkshire.

I may well of told Derek this when I last saw him .           

If I can be of any further assistance please feel free to contact me, as I am still involved with the sport.

Regards Tim...

Photo: Mary Wylde, Courtesy "Offroad Archive".

Now  back the right way up, they don't have chairs in Australia?

I now realise that it was Jack Mathew's that upended the plot, look at the boots...

Photo taken by Mary Wylde, Courtesy of "Offroad Archives"

Here the Fairbrothers  Tim and Pete, taken by Mary at the last section at Cwmcwefru in one of the Frank Jones trials that I organised. Cheers Deryk.

This looks to me like the 440 BSA outfit if you look at the forks, the two shots above this one, is either the works B50 or the one the Fairbrothers built. Wrong...

                                              15/04/2020...

 The bike in the photo taking another look, is an AJS, or Matchless.. look at the Magneto... A case of the Fairbrother's just pushing someone elses outfit out of the section...

OK... you know that all of these pages I do, evolve when new information arrives, and this is the case here.

Deryk Wylde sent me a couple more photo's that Mary Wylde had taken that we thought on first look were of the Round brothers 440 Victor outfit? Yes I know the one is upside down and a job to tell.

Then I found out the first mail I got from Tim Fairbrother, and reading it now, that I really didn't properly read it the first time.

It now transpires that The Fairbrother's did never own one of the Works BSA outfits, although the plot had passed through their hands, and their bikes were just exact copies of firstly the 440 Victor outfit, and then the same with the B50 outfit.

And then all they had done was to borrow the Round's B50 for a couple of trials whilst building a replica of that machine for themselves. 

Back to the pictures above well after  getting back to Deryk, he now thinks, as do I, that the shot of the plot upside down is in fact Jack Mathews's B50 outfit that Deryk says also had a big woopsie at the same section.(Matchless Deryk)

So the photo above that is actually John the passenger  and Will Hawks up-righting that outfit for Jack who is walking away from it up the step. But has you can see that John has also took the plunge has Deryk said, Just look at his back he is soaked.

Now the  bottom shot of the Fairbrother's pushing a plot out of the section with some help, is just them being too helpful again like all chair guy's are. 

The outfit although the nose of the chair looks a lot like the nose of the Round's 92HOH Victor outfit, If you look closely at the photo the engine in the plot looks like a AJS or Matchless?

So you see how you can get things wrong by just assuming.

I will have to get Tim to explain, did they actualy have or build a Matchless/AJS outfit or was it someone elses?

~~~~~~~

Back to the Story...

The story continues, I told Natalie that Tim had said that  the late Peter Roydhouse had told him that,

some guy in Yorkshire had now got the outfit, but it was in a sorry state.

 She put an add in the Yorkshire Evening Post, well actually, got a reporter to do a piece for the story.

Well, well known trials rider, enthusiast, and I hope he does not mind, eccentric, Mick Wilkinson answered the request for information, and phoned Natalie with a phone number of the guy that now owned the Works bike.

 Derek visited the farm of the new owners and took a look at the bike, but the owner could not agree on a price for the BSA bike so that it could return into the hands of the rightful owner that only wanted to restore the bike, for the memory of his late brother Ray Round...

 I will continue with this story when I find out any-more information. It would be good if Derek got the  bike back to restore though would it not?

Photo Courtesy Derek Round...

Well here is BSA 92 HOH in it's sorry state, just a sad old bike but part of "British Trials History"...

                                             "Least we forget"...

Pages Courtesy BSA Competition History.

So we found the Outfit, Yes the side-car was there too, but had been taken off, so that the owner could ride the bike to round up cattle so I am told.

            Anyway a bit of history about theWorks BSA outfit.

                                        92 HOH...

~~~~~~~

This Snap of the Round  boys, was all that Natalie had as a refrence to try and find the machine...

~~~~~~~

Here is the History of the BSA Sidecar outfit 92 HOH.

Arthur Pulman, first built the plot in 1962 moving on from his works ride on the Scott-Wade DOT. machine, to a new contract with BSA.

The side-car was again built with the L shaped diagonal linked  suspension the same has was used on the DOT outfit, this came from his spell in the aircraft industry and was up to that sort of standard.

The bike frame was basically one of the last batch BSA C15T frames with adjustment.

By 1963 Arthur was using the outfit now fitted with a BSA B40 unit engine, and winning the Knut trial in the autumn of that year with 22 marks lost.

The engine was eventually replaced with the BSA 441 cc Victor unit, but the chassis remained the same throughout its career.

Deryk has kindly sent me this picture to use from the "Offroad Archive" again.

I could not put these stories together now without the help of Deryk, I must say. Thank's mate.

Arthur Pulman and passenger Tim Jenkins at the top of Downscombe in the 1966 Beggers Roost trial...

Information Courtesy Deryk Wylde...

05/10/2022...

I have recived an email from Brian Dodge who I can remember well as being Arthur's passenger after wife Lyn retired from passengering.

Brian used to wear a Everoak Corker helmet...

Photo Courtesy Stuart Green IOM... Thank's Fella...2023...

Arthur Pulman and Brian Dodge Manx Two day trial 1966?

From Brian...

I just came across the article reference 92 HOH, and thought I would just add for the record, that I was Arthur's passenger for the period we had the BSA, I also took over from Lyn on the DOT...

Prior to all that, I passengered R T Williams on the Ariel, while I lived in South Wales. At the time I was living in the south of Wales I also rode a Royal Enfield works replica to win the under 21 trials title.

All of this is a long time ago as i'm now a bit long in the tooth at 84.

Best Regards...

Brian Dodge...

~~~

17/12/2023...

Now I know all these stories I put together keep on evolving over time, but when you think you have got the stories correct and in fact right, something else comes along to throw a spanner into the works so to speak...

 Well over the last couple of months Deryk Wylde as seemed to have found the right formula for his Nostalgia Bookshop Facebook page and has put a load of new, and old, that I have seen before photos up, and the good thing is people have started to comment on these photos... including me...As if I have the time, but it is the cause... anyway enough ranting...

Today he threw up a photo that I have seen before, I recon in one of the Offroad Review magazines but it then passed me by... until I looked at it today...

Photo Courtesy Deryk Wylde Nostalgia Bookshop Facebook... 

So this is Brian and Michael Martin on a BSA B40 outfit with a second batch BSA C15 T frame, but with a 1961-1962 D type engine fitted.

And the exhaust running towards the sidecar and not like the one on the Arthur Pulman outfit or the later Round brothers plot...And the sidecar nose is a different shape to the Pulman chair...Yes different outfit... but now look at the registration number... Yes 92 HOH...

just a matter of borrowing the plates back would you think...Or was this the works BSA outfit just before Arthur Pulman built his version...

Perhaps Michael Martin can put us right...

So yes after checking with the DVLA site BSA 92HOH is indeed still registered and was first registered in January 1963 so the outfit that the Martin boys are on was a new build, as we are sure with the amount of snow that was indeed that time... the other Good or ...bad thing is the last V5c was June 1993.. so it looks like the BSA 350 as it says on the DVLA site is still in a barn in Yorkshire... Nov 2024...

See what I mean about intrigue though...

PS... I think the photo is from winter 1962-63... I remember that snow well...

_______

                                           Then From Roger Wall.

                                                  14/06/2017.

Photo Courtesy the Wall Twins.

The Wall twins aboard Ex Works BSA, 92HOH.

Roger and his dog,

looks a lot like my old dog. too.

An old newspaper shot of the twins, Wall.

And trying hard on the Bultaco outfit that replaced 92 HOH.

To Be Continued...

It is now more than two years since this story so I am getting back to the investigation and trying to find out If the bike is still in the barn or if something sensible has been done and the bike as been restored.

Watch this space.

~~~~~~~

2016.

Well as far as I know the remains of the works outfit still lies in a barn somewhere in Yorkshire.

What a shame that a machine with oodles of British Trials History should end up in this sorry state.

Well after the week of trying to persuade the Classic trials Nation to get some sense before it is to Late,

 One of the few connected to the trials outfit community from this time the early sixties, said that him, and fellow long term exponent of the three wheeled "Barrow" boys Doug Sherbourn, were going to make a last ditch attempt to show the young guys how it was done in this years 2016 Sammy Miller rounds.

The man that helped to get you home many times in the past is AA roadside assistance Mr Will Hawkes, the guy in the second picture down helping passenger John recover the Jack Mathews outfit...

Read what "Will" said on the "TRAD" page.

So I have a second batch C15T frame unit along with a QD back wheel.

I will get a pair of Ceriani forks has used by the Rickman Scramblers at the time, and have a Ariel Leader front hub that I was told was going to be the next addition to the works outfit until BSA pulled the plug.

I have a fair amount of the right parts to build a 350+ engine and like I said on the other page, I will try and get Roger Taylor to build the engine unit up for me, has he knows what goes into a top rate BSA sidecar engine.

I will over the next week try and get more information about the sidecar design that Arthur Pulman put together for the BSA and the DOT outfit.

 Being an aircraft components designer  Arthur knew what he was doing.

Photo Courtesy Lee Prescott

This is Ian Hannan and Sue Smith, with their Roger Taylor engined outfit trying very hard...

More later. the story continues.

15/04/2020...

Hello there:

I hope you don't mind receiving this message and assume I am emailing Charlie Prescott whose name I have spotted on the 'bsaotter' and Trials Central' websites.

Explanation:

Yesterday I was drifting my way around the Internet, on 'lock-down' like the rest of us, and decided to 'Google' Ray & Derek Round (as you do) when I came across your forum posts and articles on

'92 HOH'.

50 years ago this month I was one of a bunch of lads who founded The East Midlands Section of the AJS & Matchless Owners Club. After a year or two a couple of lads became interested in building a trials outfit and got chatting to the Round's (presumably at a local trial). I just can't remember the exact details now, but I think it was Ray who brought BSA '92 HOH' out to one of our club-nights and gave us an interesting talk on the bike and his exploits on her.

After the talk he took the bike out to a patch of waste ground next to the pub and invited volunteers to ride the bike. Since I had some experience of riding outfits I gave it a go. I have no idea who my 'chairman' is, he enthusiastically leapt aboard to keep the wheel down, but he seems to be enjoying it.

Photo Courtesy AJS & Matchless Owners Club.

All I can remember now is Ray entertaining us all by doing 'wheelies' across rough grass and feeling every firing stroke of that works motor through my skeleton.

I am now approaching 75, living up in North Yorkshire and getting out, when I can, on an  Africa Twin. Some of the locals I meet on runs ride in Vintage Trials, but I do not have any regular contact now with anyone who might help find '92 HOH'; although I could ask around when they lift the curfew.

I thought it was strange that, on Trials Central, there was a post that referred to 'someone called Mick Wilkinson of Kettlewell'.

When my wife and I got married in 1982 (she was born in Hull and living at Scarborough) our honeymoon was spent, not at some exotic Mediterranean location, but traveling round the Yorkshire Dales. On route we stopped and paid homage at Bill & Mick Wilkinson's garage in Kettlewell. It was the highlight of the week.

I know this will not help your search much, but it might be an example of little slices of history popping up when you least expect it; and it does show the bike as it was in 'around' 1975. Any copyright to the photograph, by the way, is not mine but belongs the the AJS & Matchless Owners in whose 'Jampot' magazine it appeared at the time. I am still in touch with one of the original lads, but doubt he remembers much more than I do. I'll ask and see what I get back.

Best wishes & good luck

Bob Fitter.

Thank's Bob...

More Later...

updat2023...10...