We Take a Look at the BSA Works Bantam's REDT1 and REDT2 and some of the later History...

Photo Motor Cycle Magazine...

Peter Fraser testing the Bantam REDT2 for Motor Cycle magazine in 1967...

I remember first seeing the RedT1 (Redditch-Trial) bike at Edge Hill quarry in Warwickshire in I think spring 1966. There was a squad of the BSA boys from Redditch and Small Heath tinkering with the bike and several of them riding it around the quarry before and after the trial, I think Brian Martin actually rode the bike in the trial its self.…or it could have been Jim Dyson.

The next time I saw it again at the same venue, was later in the year in December at another group trial that started there. The long black silencer had gone and was replaced with a chromed production looking silencer later in the next trial it had been replaced again with a PECO unit, I remember this because it was the same box as mate Nobby Clements had fitted to the DOT he built up in 1963.

After reading the Rod Burris article in the MotorCycle Sport Magazine (July 1986). remembering the little bike came back to me. This was about 2005 when we bought the second hand copy of the magazine from the National Motorcycle Museum.

The mag turned up several times later as I went through my piles of magazines along with the Motor Cycle article that Peter Fraser did on the same machine in 1967,( on Out On a BSA prototype page in listings.) but although I remembered the bikes well, I thought that there must be plenty of information on the net about them, but after looking it seems there is not that much, so I decided to do this page for the BSA Otter site, after chatting to mate Ed Freeman about the Bantam’s as he knows far more about the ex works Bantam bikes than me, if you look at the pages on the Otter site. He told me about another article in the Classic MotorCycle mag of March 1988, also written by ex owner of the field bike BSA Bantam RED T2, Rod Burris after he had sold the machine to Bill Haines from Northolt, and a chap from my sidecar trials days Colin Hare had managed to straighten and repair the broken  Bushman frame, he also modified the frame a bit by going back to the two under engine rails that was experimented with on RED T1 when it first appeared… After trying to find if REDT2 is still out there somewhere  I did a check on the DVLA site and yes the ex Dave Langston Bantam (HOK 496D) is still listed as last changing hands in September 2021 and it says first reg 1987.. year of manufacture 1966. A 175cc on Sorn. The other registration number that came up but not correct REDT2 (HOK 469D) has gone from the site although in the Classic MotorCycle article it says that that registration number had been retrieved for the Bantam then in 1988. So we now have another ex works BSA to try and find, where is the (HOK 496D) ex Brian Martin -Dave Langston bike REDT2 living? 

Somewhere in the Lincolnshire Wolds I am told….Lets find it…

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Photo Courtesy Martyn Barnwell...Classic MotorCycle.

John Pearson testing the now Bill Haines owned REDT2 BSA Bantam...in early 1988...

Note: the now under engine rails ...

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From 1966 Motorcycle magazine...

Brian Martin aboard the early Bantam REDT1...

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There seems to be little snippets of information in some of the old magazines  that has not really be recorded before like when Dave Roland’s  rode a 173 BSA Bantam in the Inter Centre Team Trial in mid April 1967 for the East Midlands team  this must have been one of the RED bikes was it (JON 473E) because (HOK496D) must have been being readied for the Scottish Six Days…with decreased cc’s for Dave Langston… And we now know that Dave Rolands New bike got delivered in a un-built state in a crate at his door step a couple of days before the trial. So it must have been the old REDT1 bike that he rode in the Inter Centre Team Trial and the (JON473E) plates were with the new bike in the crate. DVLA says the registration (JON473E) was first registered in March 1967…so this seems to match up…

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From Motorcycle Sport Magazine July 1986...

If you look at the bit of text you can see one of the registration mistakes (HOK495D)...

This is from the article by owner of the then Field bike, Rod Burris that turned out to be the old works Bantam REDT2...

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Writing and constructing this Page as been a nightmare, Why… well it is the old magazine-book  thing again where  registration numbers have not been checked  or author's were confused in the first place. This I first spotted in the Don Morley’s  Classic British Trials Bikes where the second Sammy Miller Ariel had been said to have been registered as 788 GON and in fact had never been corrected to 786 GON as it should have been…  So doing the REDT1 And RED T2 Bantams has been worse, Red T2 has been said to be registration numbers (HOK 496D) and (HOK 495D) and this was registered to a three wheeled Reliant. Where after blowing up bad photos I eventually came up with the correct ? (HOK 496D) this was more confusing when it was reduced in engine size for “Diamond Dave” Langston to ride in the under 150 class in the SSDT. And the other thing Dave was stated as riding the bike but Dave which one? so I was confused with some of my own writing….

Deryk Wylde…

Looking at these images of BSA Bantam triallers reminds me of an historical detail given to me by the late Dave Rowland, not long before he passed away. He recounted the time when BSA were in severe problems and, as Dave so aptly put it, "Rushing around Small Heath like headless chickens."

He received a 'phone call early on the Monday morning of the week that the Scottish was about to start in Edinburgh at the weekend. "There's a new bike for you to ride in Scotland - it's a lightweight - we'll deliver it to you early tomorrow."

Early next day a BSA lorry pulls up at his home and the driver unloads a wooden crate and trundles it up the drive where Dave and wife, Doreen, watch - baffled. "The box wasn't big enough to fit a bike in...........", explained Dave.

When the tools came out and the box was opened he found he had been wrong - the box was not big enough to fit an assembled bike in...........

It is Tuesday - he has to be in Edinburgh, 300 miles away, ready to ride at the weekend - and he has a kit of parts that possibly will assemble into a bike.

It would have been - had the factory not forgotten odd items, like a saddle, for instance.............

Panic set in - Dave started putting together his kit of parts - then dashing round local dealers to find the odd bits that were missing. Yes, the story had a good ending, Dave did get it all put together - even had an hour spare to get it started and dash round a few of his local Chapel-en-le-Frith sections, before the mad dash to Edinburgh.

And you all thought life as a factory rider was easy!!!

Deryk…

We believe after the sad demise of Dave Roland the little Bantam was kept in the family and was ridden a time or two by the late Davy McBride from Bangor Northern Ireland and I think this is where  the Bantam REDT1 (JON473E ) must still live.

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A Redmarley hill climb picture, with long shadows for Michael Martin on the 175 BSA as he leaves the start line late in the day on Easter Monday 1968.

Photo Courtesy Offroad Archives Deryk Wylde...

When he was preparing a Redmarley feature for ORR, Bob Light sent a print to Michael down in Somerset and asked if Michael could tell us a bit about the little BSA. ...

This is the story.

Michael Martin..

“The Bantam has the early development cast iron barrel 175cc engine, which led to the aluminium barrel engines which Mick Bowers and myself campaigned in Midland Centre events. The competition engines that we developed at Redditch were numbered RT for trials (the RT standing for Redditch Trials), and the scrambles engines were numbered RM, where RM didn’t stand for Redditch anything, but in fact for Redmarley, because this is where the new engine first saw the light of day! Charlie >Thank you Michael...

“Amazingly enough I have discovered a power curve for this very machine. You will see that it was running on methanol, and as I remember, I was fourth in the 250 class.”

Sure enough, the document is labelled ‘Performance Curves RM4 Cast Iron Scrambles Engine – Easter 1968’. On methanol, peak power was just under 19bhp at 6500rpm, falling away as the chart goes towards 8000rpm. A note: says that the only change made between petrol and methanol operation was the main jet. Some detonation was noted on petrol operation.

Maximum power on petrol was just under 16bhp at 6000rpm. The exhaust system in use measured 47.75 inches from the piston face.

So there you have it – a very competitive one-seven-five.

MM…

Michael Martin did or supervised most of the engine work on the REDT1 and REDT2 Bantam engines, and has the works development notes, probably the ones that Rod Burris used to write his article in the MotorCycle Sport magazine...

BSA Factory Photo of the Brian Martin REDT1 Bantam...

Photo Courtesy Offroad Archives.. Deryk Wylde.

Brian Martin on Bantam RED T1? in an early January trial...1967...

Front cover photo from the Classic MotorCycle March 1988...

Martyn Barnwell...

This is BSA Bantam REDT2 now in the ownership of Bill Haines after purchasing the bike from rescuer Rod Burris... we nearly lost a works bike so need to find it again NOW...

Just a Start on the REDT1 and REDT2 bikes ...

So More Later...With the devlopment of REDT1 and REDT2 from the Rod Burris Article and I hope from Michael Martin... 

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Photo Courtesy Offroad Archives...

Bill Price was another of the little gang that helped bring the Works BSA Bantams to life... He had a couple of ride outs on RedT2...Here he is on his later BSA Bantam creations... There is a photo of Bill aboard RedT2 on the "Bantam Saga" page...

Updat2024/12...